ASI 38 "PRESENTATION BOOKS & PORTFOLIOS" Interview with Don Takemura, President of Itoya of America

Jeff00:04

Welcome back to art supply insiders. My name is Jeff Morrow, and today we're talking with Don Takemura. Who's the president of Itoya of America, Don, how are you doing today?

Don00:15

Fantastic. Thank you for having me here. I appreciate it.

Jeff00:17

Oh, gosh, we are. I can't tell you. We're really excited to have you here. Um, first tell me a little bit about Itoya.

Who are they? What do they do?

Don00:27

Itoya yeah, it it's Itoya in our parent company in Japan that a lot of people may have heard of is actually a retail store. They've been around a hundred and. Something years. I'm supposed to know the answer. They're like 108 years. And, uh, they have a lot of stationary things and, and they're they're household name and kind of a Macy's type of Mecca store to go to in Japan, Utah of America.

We're very different. Uh, we're part of the same family, but we have very little in common. We don't have a retail store at all. We manufacture design and distribute a lot of art supplies, uh, office supplies, stationary. Notebooks pens, that kind of stuff. And, uh, we sell it to over 3000 stores in the United States and Canada.

So that's kind of our business model, very kind of wholesale distributor. We've been around for 46 years now. I think it is. Wow. And, um, yeah, so we, we, um, we're, we're, we're busy trying to come up with new stuff all the time and it's, again, it's, it's an exciting fun category to always try to come up with new.

Notebooks and presentation kind of, uh, products.

Jeff01:29

Yeah. That's, that's the challenge, isn't it, it, it's, it's one thing to come out with some initial products, which is entirely another thing to come out with something new

Don01:37

and exciting. Yeah. A absolutely. And that's, that's my job really. Um, I get the wonderful pleasure of trying to create new stuff that people like.

Um, sometimes. Works out people like it other times, not so much. so you, you know, I always joke if I could, uh, you know, hit a home run with every single product I'd be retired by now, but, uh, that's not the way it works. So we, we, we, we, uh, keep trying.

Jeff02:01

So how did you get in, in, into this business? Was it a family affair?

Was, uh, how did all that happen?

Don02:07

Yeah, a absolutely. That's exactly what it is. Uh, my father started the. 46 years ago, brought the ETO of Japan business to the us selling stationary pens and, and things like that to various retail stores. Um, today, as I mentioned, very different business, uh, model, but I joined the business just six years ago.

I really had no plans of. Kind of succession plan August for my father, that wasn't really in the cards, but, uh, uh, I was in the San Francisco area doing my own thing, working on startups and those kind of cliche, uh, businesses working on a lot of marketing. So running the marketing for those startups, but you know that the call came and, um, he asked if I was interested in joining about six years ago and there were a lot.

Conditions and things it's, it's tough working with your own, your old man. And, uh, I, I decided to join it and, uh, so that's, that's kind of what happened. Um, my task really was to change the business from a traditional kind of art supplies and. We also do a lot in the kind of photo camera industry as well for photographers and, and, uh, and again, the kind of stationary side, change that to bring on a lot of new product, a lot of new energy and, and modernize really as well.

So, and it's, it was, it was a tough, tough challenge, but I'm, I'm ex was excited to take it on. And, uh, six years later I'm happy to report, you know, we're doing pretty.

Jeff03:29

So Itoya it. I took a look at your website and it, it, it looks like mostly portfolios and presentation books. Is that a good overview? Yeah.

Yeah.

Don03:40

I mean that, I think that that's kind of what it used to be six years ago when I joined. And that was what keeps the lights on. Really the present, the original art portfolio was created 25 or so years ago. And it was in the world of portfolios and presentation books that were developed. Uh, ours was of a higher quality.

And so, uh, artists and photographers flock to our product because. They have their valuable art or their work or whatever it is that they're, if they're professional, what their work is represented through that portfolio. So, uh, they were spending a little bit more money for a little bit better product, and that's what we had.

So there's a lot of low end stuff out there and there's some really high end expensive, uh, Leather bound stuff out there as well. Ours was kind of right in the middle and ours became kind of the largest market. So we are the market leader today. That's what it was as I mentioned, six years ago. And then as I mentioned, my, my job really was to change it to be not just a, kind of a one trick pony, if you will, but get into other categories as well.

Jeff04:47

So, uh, just from the 40,000 foot level, what other categories are you guys involved?

Don04:53

Um, we're we're we have a lot of pens actually. Um, so that old kind of, uh, stationary pen mentality is still very much alive and well, uh, people are writing more than ever. The fountain pen business in particular is very hot and, uh, not just from a collector's kind of cliche collector, old person standpoint, but also the young crowd that's into it.

Uh, PRI primarily because a lot of new fountain pen ink colors have come onto the market. I mean, it used to be. Would you like a blue ink or black ink or a blue, black ink. And today, like even just the brand that we represent, uh, sailor fine pens from Japan, even they alone have over 300 different colors, uh, of fountain pen ink available.

So the more ink you have, the more pens you need, the more pens you have, the more ink you need. And that business has really grown in the younger segment in the 20 somethings and 30 somethings, uh, and also skewing, uh, more and more to female as well, where just even six years ago, when I joined. I would go to a Penn show like in Washington, DC or San Francisco.

And it was probably 70%, 60 plus year old men. And today it's, you know, average age is probably 20 years younger. I bet. It's you see a lot of 20 something, 30 something as well as the old older group as well. So it's wonderful to see that mix and to have fountain pens come back, but that's just one segment of it.

Um, we do a lot of other stationary products. You know, scissors to glue, to sta uh, staplers, uh, that kind of thing. Notebooks is a category that we got into about four years ago. And so, uh, again, if you're writing a lot, then you're using a lot of paper. You need more notebooks. So we've brought in a lot of Japanese made high quality, good paper notebooks as well.

Uh, we've started to dabble. Some of the markers and, uh, things like that. Um, but, uh, that, that's kind of the, the top, top level of it. As I mentioned, we've always had also a, I forgot to mention photo albums as well. So we've, uh, believe it or not, people are still printing photos and that, that business is still alive and well, it actually hit the bottom around 2017.

Um, and from about 2018 upward people are, have printed more photos again. So like that continues to grow. I mean, obviously with all of us having our smartphone. We take what a hundred times more photos than ever. And even if you only print 50 of them a year, that's, that's quite a bit. And so that business is, is back as well.

So let's,

Jeff07:20

let's focus in a little bit on something we chatted about, uh, portfolios and presentation book. Uh, what's the difference between a portfolio and a presentation book? I, I

Don07:31

don't know what it is. No. I mean, that's a, that's a great question. We get asked that a lot and they are a little bit inter interchangeable, but I think the simplest way to explain it is that.

a presentation book is a portfolio, but a portfolio is not necessarily a presentation book. And so what I mean by that, I guess, is a presentation book is what we see it as a, a truly like a book. Where it's either a binder, a ring binder, or bound into the book where you're turning pages and you can show your work.

And that is what's and it could be letter size, like you see at a staples or any type of regular store or like ABL art supply store. Or it could be, we, we make 'em as large as 24 by 36 to hold posters. Right. And, but they're still, wow. It's very. Book, uh, that you could turn pages and show off, uh, your artwork or your photography or, or your collection or whatever it is that you have portfolios on the other hand have kind of traditionally been these big, large zipper cases with big handles on them, that you could hold everything from canvases to watercolor paper, whatever.

So it's, it's more loose stuff that goes into a very large. Dub case is kind of seemed to be a portfolio. But again like that, that world, as I said, is a little bit interchangeable where somebody says, you know, I'm taking my portfolio to, uh, this meeting or to this interview or to an audition that could just mean a presentation book, or it could actually mean you're taking this big zipped up bag full of loose paper that you're putting out on the table.

So that that's kind of the, the difference as we see it. Um, so our, our business very much. In the portfolio, uh, overall segment, if you will. Okay.

Jeff09:09

So if we have watercolors out there and they do a really nice piece, they're really not framing it yet. Um, the best place to store it would be in what kind of product.

Don09:23

Um, I, I think that it depends on the, kind of the size of it as well. Uh, we do make pretty large size, uh, presentation books that can, that can hold watercolor, uh, paper, uh, carefully and it's archival safe. And, uh, the paper that we have inside of our books and everything about it is, uh, is acid, acid neutral or acid free.

And so there's that kind of product. That we make. We also make, uh, cases, very large cases that where you can hold maybe 20 sheets of the watercolor paper inside it. And it closes, shut that like kind of a clam shell type of box or a mag, like a case that holds and closes down ally as well. So, uh, there's those type of things, as well.

As I, as I had mentioned these very large, uh, Port zipped up bagged portfolios where might have a one inch or a three inch gusset where you can hold a lot of paper and, uh, carefully store it that way. So it, it all depends on what we kind of break out into. Three categories is probably. TMI for a lot of people outside the industry, but we kind of break it down to presentation, storage and transportation.

And so it's like, if you're gonna present there's one way, if you're just gonna, if you're gonna transport it from place to place who wants something a little more durable that can handle that kind of thing. And then if you're just gonna store it, like under your bed or on a bookshelf, there's, there's another kind of, uh, format for that.

So it really depends on which one of those three, uh, you're trying to do. So L let's

Jeff10:49

talk a little bit about, you said for presentation. So, you know, it, it, it might be, I'm a teacher and I've got a class of 10 people and I wanna show them different techniques and different things that I've done. Uh, they would take some of their work and they would put it in this presentation.

I explain a little bit about what that means, what it looks like.

Don11:11

Yeah, sure. I mean, we, we, for example, our original art portfolio, it's our kind of classic presentation book, uh, that we have, um, has these polypropylene pockets hard, hard to a little bit explain, uh, via audio instead of video. Uh, but it has these pockets where you can slide in from the top.

Um, Your your artwork and we make it in 26 different sizes. And so depending upon what kind of, so a lot of teachers, for example, might buy like a 14 inch by 17 inch book that holds that's, that's easy enough to carry around to class, into your car and all these things, uh, but holds various sizes from letter size all the way up to 14 by 17.

And they can just slide them in through the top and then they can turn the pages and show their class or whoever it is, uh, the artwork or the things that they're working on. So, um, There's our traditional book has 48 pages. So it can hold up to 40. Ish pieces of art that you can, that you can pay that you can turn.

It also depends on how thick of the item it is that you're putting in there. Um, so that that's, that's kind of, uh, what our core product line looks like. And, um, how is

Jeff12:17

it, E is it easy to, um, stand up on its own or do they actually have to hold the book and, you know, turn the pages or is it kind of like fold into a bit of

Don12:28

an ease.

Um, yeah, actually, I mean, it's a great question. I mean, we, funny thing is, well, most of 'em lay flat, so it's like a, just like a normal notebook or a book. So you have to have it on the larger they are, of course, that, that they bend so that you have to probably wander on and on a table, the smaller ones you could like a letter size, one are nine by 12.

You could probably stand up and kind of turn the pages easily. Um, the, as a, the funny thing is we actually have a product, uh, called the popup easel where it actually. Easel built into the back of it as well. Mm. And so that was what was exactly what you're talking about. It was designed for, uh, just having it on your desk or presenting, uh, to, in a meeting or to a small group of 10 20 people, uh, where it's, it sits up like an easel as well.

That's only, actually only available in the letter size, not in all those other sizes, but we have tinkered with that type of product and, and do make it, uh, most people tend to just want the flat book that, uh, that, that they're used to. Okay.

Jeff13:22

So, you know, I, I, our audience out there, uh, many of them are just absolute beginners and they, they go to an art supply store and they, they walk into the portfolio aisle and here are 14,000 different things for them to look at.

And so if, if they want to. Uh, just protect their art and they see all of these things around. What are the minimum types of things they should be looking for, uh, when they buy a portfolio or a presentation case?

Don13:58

Yeah. I, I, I think that the key for, for. Anything and everything is, is, uh, acid for your acid neutral.

Those are the words you're looking for and what the different, what the difference is is that, um, for example, a lot of most pockets of presentation books, uh, and most kind of those that look like that plastic actually are polypropylene and polypropylene is, is wonderful substance. Uh, that actually is natural naturally, uh, acid free.

And so if it's polypropylene. I won't spell that for you, but, uh, there'll be a test later and, but it's, it's, it's going to be acid free. So now the problem occurs because as I mentioned, a lot of those clear pockets, uh, that you see out there are made outta polypropylene. So, so the problem occurs when there's something inside it, particularly paper.

And so a lot of presentation books, uh, will have some sort. Black paper or white paper or some sort of paper inside it. That paper usually unfortunately, is not acid free. Your acid neutral. Now all, all trees, all paper have a little bit of acid in it. So the paper is not necessarily acid free, but you can neutralize it.

And there's a pH balance thing. And so they can neutralize it. And so that's why most paper is acid neutral. Never really acid free because it's not, it's actually a MIS it's misnomer. It's actually MIS misnamed. Uh, because paper can't be acid free it's acid neutralized. Um, so that's kind of what you're looking for.

And then it gets into. The label or the product packaging might say it's acid free as neutral, but do you believe that company because much like everything in this world of marketing, you'll say BPA free, you'll say this free, is it really? And so you have to buy a product from a brand that hopefully you trust and hopefully they are doing the right thing.

And so that's the kind of thing where we're really careful about the way we make our products, uh, and the paper we buy. Actually, we find that a lot of paper out there. Even the paper companies claim that it's acid neutral, but it's not when we test it. And so we actually buy from a European source and have that product shipped to our factories and have it inserted.

So to make sure, because it's such a big part of it. And so why, why the follow-up question I always get asked is why do you care that it's acid for your acid neutral? It's it's that it's the off gassing is what occurs. So if you have an old photograph or an old piece of paper, 10 years later, you put it away 10 years later and it comes back and it's yellow or brown.

That's what happens and you don't want that to happen. And so you want these books that are acid free acid neutral so that there's no off gas. So it doesn't make the paper turn brown or yellow basically is what you try to prevent. And so that, that's the core of what you're looking for. So

Jeff16:46

that's why all of those.

Photographs that look so pretty when you put 'em in a book and now all of a sudden they're yellow and brown and you, what the heck happened. It's it's a chemical reaction. It sounds like.

Don16:58

That is, that is, that is correct. That is correct. And so that is, that's what you're trying to prevent by storing it for long periods of time.

And if you're gonna have something in your book for six months, it's not gonna happen. Right. But, uh, if you leave. In warmer places or areas where the sun hits it and things like that, it could happen faster than others, but that's, that's exactly where you're trying to prevent is your photos of your, you know, your grandma and this and that.

You you're trying to protect it so that the next generation has it. And it's in very good condition. And so that's why acid free acid neutral matters.

Jeff17:31

So are all, do all of your portfolios have acid free? Uh, pages in them, every, all

Don17:38

of them, uh, not, not all of them are the ones that are designed for art.

All of them do. Absolutely. I see. So they're, they're labeled as such, uh, we do make some products that are for office supplies. So if you're, uh, an office worker and you're trying to just put papers in there and organize and make business presentations, using letter size things that came out of the copier or your printer, like you don't need that to.

Acid free or acid neutral. So for those products, uh, it, it won't, it won't have paper that's acid neutral, but again, that paper is expensive. And so that's what raises the price of it. And that's why, uh, we, we do make office supply specific ones. And, uh, so we don't label those as being acid free or acid neutral a, a little bit off

Jeff18:21

subject.

But when I was looking on your, your website, I noticed that you have, uh, portfolios. Comic books for vinyl records for, I mean, you have some really eclectic types of products. Can talk a little bit about that. Cause I think it's a little bit fun quite frankly. Yeah.

Don18:41

Yeah. I mean that that's, that was kind of, um, my task really coming into it was how do I grow this category outside this traditional art supply?

Uh, so artists and photographer categories, and I looked at it and said and said, who else? Cares to protect the things that they have, uh, and pay a little bit more money for a better product like ours. And so, uh, comic books is one. I, I grew up, uh, collecting comic books, myself, and most people have 'em as well as vinyl records.

Most people have 'em in a. Box, and you just kind of flip through 'em with your fingers on the top of 'em. Uh, and you flip through 'em whether you, you have vinyl records in a crate or some sort of box, but, uh, even comic books, like they also in the box and there's no really elegant format or way for a person to take a bunch of those and present them or put 'em on your coffee, coffee table so people can see them or, or organize them so they can put 'em on a bookshelf.

There's really. Elegant solution for it. So we did come up with those products and the primary difference between our kind of original art portfolio for artwork, as well as, uh, for these versus these comic books and vinyl records is that we were able to work with our manufacturing team to have a pocket that actually has a, has a patented Gus it, so when you put something that's a little bit thicker than a sheet of paper, so like a comic book or a vinyl record with the actual outer sleeve on it, um, the pocket actually expands.

It holds, uh, up to for like vinyl record, one holds two vinyl records front and back, and it lays the pockets stay perfectly flat and you can turn it like, like a wonderful flat book and it's, and it's beautiful and there's not, there's never been anything like it. Um, the funny part of it is that we don't really sell to any record stores, any sort of general stores like that.

We sell, as I mentioned to art supplies and crafts stationary stores. And, and so they look at this product and they're like, What are you doing? I, I don't, and I don't have anybody coming here to buy vinyl records, but, uh, I just think that that's the next step. And so we created the product, even though we don't really have a great way to distribute it.

And I'm hopeful, uh, that there's, it will eventually people will eventually discover it. And, uh, And start buying it. So that's kind of why we make those. Well, it

Jeff20:57

sounds to me like you really need to set up a booth outside a comic con. Oh, we do.

Don21:03

We do. Yeah. Yeah, we do. We do that.

Jeff21:04

Yeah. That what a great place to sell a

Don21:07

product, huh?

Yeah. Yeah, we do. We do that. We work with two retailers, uh, that already are there. And so they bring in our product and have a huge display of it, um, at comic con and, and, and that's a huge market. I was just. NMA expo last week as well here in Los Angeles. So, um, that's, that's a very large growing market and, um, but that's, that's exactly what we're chasing after people, again, who care for the items that they're putting in to these books and want to protect and wanna store and wanna make sure that they stay in, in perfect condition.

Well, it

Jeff21:38

sounds like E Toya is the market leader in, in this type of product. Tell us a little bit about what separates you from your competition.

Don21:50

. Yeah, I, I , I think we are the market leader. There's no real empirical data that says that, but like, based on, um, you know, our product has carried on Michael's and hobby lobby on the craft side of it.

And then at basically every art supply store, uh, in, in the us and Canada. So we are the market leader in that regard, uh, where it can be found anywhere and everywhere. A lot of it that has happened, I think is that we've kind of hung in there because of our quality, our consistent quality that we've been doing, the same thing.

20 something years in terms of the presentation books and portfolios, and people are used to seeing our brand name, they start using it in, uh, art school and things like that. And then, uh, they, they might try something cheaper and they realize it doesn't work as well. So they come back to our, our brand and then the category overall, I think it's a little bit of a attrition as well.

Some of our competitors have, have dropped out, stopped making products. So, uh, we've continued to kind of grow in that space

Jeff22:46

as. Well, and, and, and I saw on, on your website, you, I, I, I believe you purchased one of your competitors, is that right? Pratt? Uh,

Don22:56

yeah, it's, it's not really that we purchased it. We've just kind of got a, uh, long term, um, distribution agreement I see with them.

And, um, so Pratt was, uh, a prep. Paris was a big brand. 30 years ago, 20 years ago. Very big. And so, um, it was, it, it still, I guess, still until we took it over was a competitor, a very good competitor. And when you think. The presentation portfolio category in the United States, you know, our brand, the portfolio, original art portfolio brand, as well as Pratt, Paris were really the two major brands that anybody thought of, or probably could recall.

And so when the opportunity came up for us to distribute and take on the business, I, I jumped at it because it's. Kind of nice to have both instead of having, uh, a strong competitor, why not? Why not have both. And so we are continuing to make everything that they make and continue to distribute those products.

Uh, we have no, uh, bad intention. It's not one of those where you, you. You buy it to, to destroy it, get rid of it. Yeah, that's definitely not the case. And that previous owner, uh, or the current owner I should say was very adamant that, and that's kind of why she didn't really wanna sell it so much as wanted a long term deal for us to distribute it.

And, uh, she, if she gets paid royalties and, and things like that, because she wants to see it. Thrive and do well. Right. And so she came to us because I promised her in both in writing and by, by my word that we will do our best to grow the business back, uh, as much as we can. And so that that's her business was, it was tough because she was, uh, she run was running it out of, uh, Paris actually.

So she'd fly in. I don't know, 4, 5, 6 times a year to have meetings and this and that. And, and when, when COVID hit, I think it was, could fly in. So I, I think that really, uh, hurt her business and her ability to sell, but, uh, she has a wonderful product line and we continue, we will continue to grow it and do our part to make sure that the Pratt, uh, Paris brand lives on in north America.

Jeff24:53

Well, it, it sounds like between Itoya and Pratt, um, you've really got the, the area. High quality portfolios covered. Yeah,

Don25:06

I, I, I think so there, there's other kind of wonderful competitors in the space. Um, we're, we're friends with a few of 'em, um, and there's others that I've never met before, but, uh, we, we do have it covered.

We don't, uh, we're not. We're not perfect. We don't do everything. We don't make something for every size, every category. Uh, we do listen to our customers and, uh, ask them for feedback a lot. Uh, we made, as I was talking about that 24 inch by 36 inch, uh, poster, um, binder that we started making about two years ago, that actually was a product that came about from customers that asked us to make it.

And I got so. Emails and inquiries, uh, on our social media and such asking for that type of product, we decided to make it. And so, um, it was a hole that we had in our, in our lineup and we, so we, we decided to make it. And so, you know, we're continuously trying there, if there's a need any. Use case and if there's a market for it, we will definitely take a look at it and make it, I think if there somebody wants a presentation book or portfolio and we, and a size, a particular size, uh, doesn't exist then.

We, we owe to ourselves to look at and hope we can make it if there's a market for it. So we're, we're, we're still getting better, I think. But, uh, but yes, I, I think we are the, the market leader and, uh, but we still have a lot to learn and start to lot to, lot to do, I think, to make sure that this category is fulfilled.

Jeff26:33

Wow. That that's great. And, and if, uh, our audience wants to. Go out and see Itoya and, and, and see Pratt, uh, on the website. Do you have a web address that they can go to, to see all of these wonderful products? Yeah, I

Don26:47

mean, we, we don't sell directly. We sell to retailers or, or wonderful customers who are retailers and those retailers against sell to consumers.

So we don't really sell that much directly, but our, uh, eto.com it O I, a.com has our entire product mix. And then you can look for dealer locators of, uh, where they have it, the, the, you know, the thing I'm struggl. With, uh, right now is that, uh, since I've been in, uh, in six years, I've introduced over 50 new product lines, uh, in this short period of time.

And now every retailer's not gonna carry all 50 plus that's these new products. So how do I get this stuff such as the vinyl records portfolio or the comic book one or the comic book? One, as we talked about a little bit easier because there's comic cons and, and things like that. But how do I get the vinyl records portfolio out there?

To consumers, if my current retailers aren't going to carry that product. And so we are starting to think about that Mo model of, okay, is, is there some way where we do sell some stuff directly? The product is on our site, so you can see what it's about, but you can't buy it. Uh, and so maybe that is the future that we need to look at.

Is there

Jeff27:57

anything that I've forgotten to ask you as it relates to portfolios and

Don28:01

presentations? I think on that side of it, um, I think we've, we've covered, covered most of it. I, I, I, you know, there's a lot of, as, as I was talking about a little bit earlier, there's a lot of notebooks and pens and, and, and things like that that are really, uh, growing that are hot.

That, um, yeah, I hope that you'll, you'll see our site and also, uh, take a look at, and, uh, I, as I mentioned earlier, like I also really welcome and love feedback as well. Like if we're. If there's something we need to be making or something we're not doing, you know, just right. And we need to fix we're we're, we're always looking at it again.

It's a, it's not just a product business. We're a human business. We work with retailers and the retailers work at and consumers and the consumers, um, need to give us feedback if we're not doing something right. We will do our best to try to fix stuff. So that dialogue is so important. And, um, it's, it's, it's invaluable.

We get more of it now, fortunate. Uh, that's one of the good things about social media and, uh, having access is that people are very forthcoming with, uh, feedback, whether good or bad, and a lot of, lot of bad ones come in. But, uh, you know, we look at it at, we look at every single one and I personally look at every single one.

I'm the one that's. Developing a lot of new products, but I also have to work with my operations team to fix stuff when stuff is wrong. And so, uh, I definitely welcome that. Um, please don't think, oh, they've probably heard it before. Like, you know, just send it to me cuz the more I hear it, the more we're gonna take it seriously.

Right. And uh,

Jeff29:30

well, the other thing that can happen is, uh, to our audience is if, when you go to, uh, itoya.com and you see a product on there that you want, uh, go into your brick and mortar and go into to the large, uh, box stores and tell them that you want this product on the shelf. And that's a great way for, uh, them to start getting some feedback about what they should be carry.

Don29:58

Yeah, I absolutely, I think that's a big, big, big part of it. And, uh, whether it's actually in person or through their social media or their online sites, uh, you know, one of our big customers of course, is BBL art supplies and, you know, they want, they want to hear it too. Please tell them like, they're, they're pretty good about carrying a lot of items.

Online, even though they may not carry it in store. So a lot of things that, that we make, they, they agree that, okay, we'll try it online and they'll put it online. And so if CU, if a customer wants it, they do carry it online. Yeah. If it's not in there, they don't have the space in their store to carry it.

So that, that feedback loop is, is so critical. You're absolutely right. Jeff.

Jeff30:35

Well, you've got a, you've got a, an extensive line other than portfolios and presentation cases. And I would love to have you come back and we can kind of focus in on some of those other products that have, uh, crossover into fine art into crafts.

I mean, when you talk about. Pens, you see people doing calligraphy, you see them signing artwork, you see them doing a lot of things. So I would love for you to come back on the show and we can talk about some of the other things that, uh, that you guys bring to the table. Does that work?

Don31:11

yeah, a absolutely.

I mean, as you can kind of tell, like, I, I, I can sit here and talk about product all day long. I, I love, I love product love making. I love, love hearing people's reactions to it. Um, I love, love going out there selling it as well. So, uh, a absolutely I would love talk, as I said about. More about the fountain pen side of it, the ink side of it that's being used by a lot of artists as well.

Uh, the notebooks and why artists like our notebooks in particular. So, oh, um, yeah, there there's, there's a lot of that kind of stuff. Good. We, we bring in and, uh, We'll love to talk about it. Great. Well,

Jeff31:43

we are gonna have you back again and Dawn, thank you so very much. Uh you've you've enlightened us and there's no doubt that, uh, Itoya is one of the premier players in the industry.

And, uh, thank you very much for being here.

Don31:59

. Oh, thank you, Jeff. I appreciate it. And I, I enjoyed kind of talking, talking about the product all day long. So I look forward to the next time. Thank you.

Jeff32:05

Super. You've been listening to the art supply insiders. Check back with us often as we talk about the world of art and craft supplies.

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